The quote from Avi Shlaim whom I respect greatly leaves one important fact and that is in all the cases he mentions, those people were subjected to oppressive rule. Hence it is understandable that given the chance they would desire to excercise their right to self determination. Other examples could be cited where various rthnic groups coexist within the confines of a single state: Switzerland amd Belgium come to mind.
The key to the success or failure of any state is the nature of the social relations among the various groups within the state. If the legal and political structure does not allow for one group dominating another then it is very much likely that groups coexist peacefully and have positive inter-relationships contributing to the prosperity of society as a whole. It is very evident from history that pluralistic societies are the most successful in the long term.

Posted by Aref Nammari on 10/09/2008 @ 05:55AM PST

I am very concerned about the Middle East.   The fact that the Iraqi's are doing better today than a few years ago before the war is a blessing to them.  Our troops are Angels.  The Kurds,Sunnis and Shiites must learn how to get along without a fight. enough is enough.  Live Life with out killing your fellow neighbor.  Just look at Israelis how peaceful they are and how they try to hold their ground, than look at the Palestinians how much hatred they  have and are constantly trying to kill and  hurt others.  Respecting the Islamic views is what Americans do, but when they use Islam to kill themselves and others. Than that religion must be respected, but does not work to the advantage of the people.  People must be free and at Peace and that is why our Almighty God Works for us because he shows Americans Peace.  and We must respect everyones religion as we do, the the World Must Respect Ours.  That is what our Country is build on.  Truth, Light and the Way of Living.  If the Palestinians can not change their views and learn how to get along and stop killing one another, they will never see peace in their lives,  That goes for anyone in the Middle East.  They all have a Power Hunger. But Killing is not the Answer.  Helping their Country and their Children is.  with whatever God they serve. must be proven . No Killing one another.  May God Bless them all and May God Continue to shed his grace among all man kind.  Peace.

Posted by Betsy Garci on 11/06/2008 @ 04:25PM PST

Charles,
My opinion is that in the long run the so called "Palestinians" will disappear, they are not a nation, cuture or people, I tend to accept Golda's view. After May of 1948 Palestine ceased to exist. All of a sudden after the six day war in 1967 the local inhabitants of the West Bank need a state, nonsense they were happy Jordanians. How come under Jordan rule this was not a desire. This is just a ploy to destroy Israel. The Arabs living in the West Bank are former Jordanian citizens, and if Jordan were a democracy they would all be living in Jordan. The long time solution is for them to become Jordanian citizens again and for Israel and Jordan to come to a territorial agreement on how to split the West Bank between the two countries. Gaza should go back to Egypt's responsiblity. The whole world is buying into Arab lies and deceit, if it wasn't for Arab oil this whole conflict would have been over 60 years ago. We should be focusing on Jordan, thats the key to the Arabs living in the West Bank. The Arab world refused to accept the UN resolution granting them a state for themselves in 1948. They lost the 1948 war and its time the Arab world accept that responsibility and take care of the millions of refugees they created and millions of Arabs living in the West Bank now without a state or home of their own, this is not Israel's responsibility, even if the Israeli left believe so. Any solution short of returning the Arabs living in the West Bank to Jordanian citizenship is doomed to fail and create another Israeli war. The Saudi Arabian plan is just another two step plan to eliminate Israel, first Palestine in the West Bank, then all of Israel, check out any Palestinian website, Palestine is shown as a map of all of Israel, so don't be naive, pro-Israel means being realistic about these bogus peace proposals.

Posted by Michael Ross on 11/17/2008 @ 12:00AM PST

I'm going to go on the loose assumption that Michael is oblivious of the matters at hand. One of those guys taught by the textbook who believes Columbus is a hero, and John Brown is a terrorist.

Now Charles,
Can you imagine the overwhelmingly amount of Jews who share Michael's biased views?
Let's go back in history,avoiding the textbooks, sorry Michael.
For centuries there was no conflict in Palestine, in the 19th century. It was a multi-cultural state. 86% Muslim, 10% Christian, and 4% Jewish. Now when the British decided to colonize this land the Jewish wanted their own seperate state. In fact, first they considered lands near Africa before coming to Palestine. After the holocaust more zionists came into Palestine to avoid anti-semitism. Thus how the conflict broke out.

The UN gave 55% of Palestine to the Jewish people, regardless that they only made up 30% of the population. Arab armies never invaded Israel; these wars were fought on land that belonged to the Palestinian state. Nonetheless, Arab armies only engaged in this conflict after more than 15 massacres had occured. After this "conquest" as Deir Yassin put it, 750,000 Palestinians were refuged. More than 500 towns were destroyed. Palestinian culture was to be erased right along with Palestine. The UN condemned this; and it was in fact Israel that chose to ignore the partition plan, not the Palestinians.

America turned a blind eye to the nakba.

In 2000 about 123 Israeli children died; and Palestinian children? 1050. If this is your way of "dissapearing" the Palestinians, M. Ross, then by jolly it's working.
The biggest conflict at hand right now is the siege in Gaza. 1.4 million Palestinians are squeeze into Gaza, locked in this prison where they are deprived often of water, electricity and food. They cannot recieve outside aid. They cannot seek medical attention outside of their local shitholes they call a hospital, for serious medical treatment. No one can cross the checkpoints. I may young but I can't deem this as justly.This world is buying into the Israeli lies and deceit, if it wasn't for the emphasisation of the holocaust this conflict would have been over 60 years ago.

Charles, I believe in two seperate states, with Jerusalem an international city. I envision two seperate states in which the West Bank and Gaza are under a Palestinian government. Peace is freedom from violence, I wouldn't understand any other solution to the conflict.

A side note, my Mum's a Sunni, and my Father a Shiite. There's hope.

Posted by Dina Yazdani on 12/25/2008 @ 10:04AM PST

I'm promoting an idea for creating lasting peace in the Middle East and the world. It still needs a lot of votes to make it into the second round. Please help provide a more hopeful vision and alternative to the endless spiral of violence escalating in the Middle East by casting your vote today.  Thank you. 
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/israel_as_cornerstone_for_a_future_united_states_of_earth

Posted by Eli Williamson-... on 12/29/2008 @ 09:01AM PST

The first Earthpledge proposal wasn't as clear as it needed to be which caused some confusion. Please take a closer look at this hopeful vision and alternative to the endless spiral of violence escalating in the Middle East and cast your vote today. Thank you. 
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/israel_as_cornerstone_for_a_future_united_states_of_earth
Also, please check out my friend Josep's proposal for human unity:
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/human_union

Posted by Eli Williamson-... on 12/30/2008 @ 08:22AM PST